From "Une vie pour rien?" n°5-January 2002

When it was released in 1996, the Hardskin album really stood out. Typical oi! in the tradition of the Cockney Rejects, Sham 69 and co, tunes that you sing-a-long to like if you were at the football- musically speaking, their album was well received by everyone unlike their lyrics which are a kind of caricature of the oi!/skin cliches. Some people simply enjoyed it and took the lyrics seriously, some treated the whole thing as a joke and laughed at the way Hardskin made fun of all the cliches you can find in this scene while others felt offended- the fact that some members of the band played or had played in anarcho-punk bands like Wat Tyler, who are also famous for their parodies, didn't help either. Anyway, Hardskin left no one indifferent and since they've hardly ever given any interviews, or at least serious ones (in a Maximum Rock N' Roll issue, on which they're on the cover, they talked nonsense from the beginning to the end of the interview), everybody asked themselves questions about this band. And out of the blue, they announced they'd be doing their last gig in Paris on the 13th of January. I decided to interview them and because it was their last gig to try to convince them to tell me the whole truth about the band. The problem is that I had forgotten that if they did tell me everything, they would have completely betrayed what Hardskin was all about. This resulted in a pretty unconventional interview in which half of what they say must be true and the other half must not be (you try to find which part is which). Actually, it's better that way otherwise you as the reader or me as the interviewer sure wouldn't have laughed as much.

Tonight's your last gig but I first heard of Hard Skin in 1996 with your album released on Helen Of Oi and with your interview in Maximum Rock N' Roll. I thought Hard Skin was just a joke band that only wanted to laugh at all the old oi! bands.

FAT BOB: Actually it was a double bluff. We told everyone it was a joke but in fact it wasn't. We really are skinheads and we mean it man!

Nipper, are you a skinhead?

NIPPER: Er...I'm not sure...

Johnny, are you a skinhead?

JOHNNY: Je suis un skinhead (In French!)

FB: You see, it's not a joke.

J: What we wanted to do with Hard Skin was also to tip our hat to all that kind of music.

N: Yeah, it's like a tribute to oi!

But when you listen to the first Hard Skin song in which you say „We're hard 'cause we drink more beer than you", aren't you making fun of all these typical oi! songs that are exactly like that?

J: But we do drink a lot of beer! I can assure you we definitely drink a lot. You'll find out tonight anyway.

Let's get back to the Maximum Rock N' Roll interview...

J: Well you know, a lot of that interview was made up. We didn't even do it.

So anyway, Hard Skin are like a musical tribute to plenty of oi! bands like the Cockney Rejects for example.

J: That's it. All those bands are great. We saw Cocksparrer in July and it's been one the best gigs I've been to for years. They were fucking amazing! We also saw the Cockney Rejects but they were terrible. I was really looking forward to seeing them but they were very bad.

FB: The Cockney Rejects were old and fat. I hate bands that are old and fat. They were old and fat like me but I hate bands like that.

So, some of you used to play in Wat Tyler no?

J: What are you talking about? Wat Tyler are fucking terrible! They've got nothing to do with me.

FB: I've never heard of them before.

But you've played in other punk bands before right?

FB: I played in sham 69...

N: I drummed in Oi Polloi and that is true! Anyway, almost everyone in Scotland has been in Oi Polloi. You know, there's not many of us- there's only 6 million people who live up there.

FB: His boyfriend's Deek from Oi Polloi! I'm just kidding but no we've never been in other bands before.

J: We don't play live very often either. This is only our first gig this year.

I saw you in Belgium a couple of years ago but how many gigs have you played since the start of the band?

FB: We played something like 15 or 16 gigs. We even played in Tokyo in Japan with the Hat-Trickers, the Forevers and Boss.

Really?

FB: That is the truth! You're not going to believe anything we say anymore but that is actually true! This gig (plus the ones in Belfast and Dublin) is going to be released as a „Live and Loud" album on Damaged Goods. We also played in Morecambe at Holidays Up Yer Bum...Er...No, Holidays In the Sun but it was terrible. It was full of old people who like oi! music. During the festival we played with Condemned 84 and they were terrible as well. Lots of people were Sieg Heiling during their set- it was just stupid. We don't like to play with bands like that. we are an anti nazi band and condemned 84 are nazi fuckheads, they should be boycotted

N: We slagged them off a bit but we were the only band who stood up to them...Actually the Subhumans also did but they were copying us!

To me, Hard Skin looks like a band that's exterior to the oi! scene and that way, can judge what is good and bad within the skinhead and oi! scene. We can notice that in your lyrics so let's talk about some of them like :

- " Running and fighting on Saturday night "

J: That's actually wrong. It should be darts and fighting.

- “Life is a pucker, life's alright”

J: Life's a pucker " means life's alright, life's good. “Pucker” means something positive, like good. Jamie Oliver always uses that word. Jamie Oliver has got a TV show in which he's a cook. He's a wanker but anyway, he says “Pucker” all the time. “Pucker” is an East London word, it's like Cockney rhyming slang.

So no wonder I didn't understand because I looked up that word in the dictionary.

J: Did you look up fucker or “pucker”?

No! “Pucker”! Let's talk about your lyrics :

- “Working class kids on the streets, Now I know these days are over”

J: That's about the good old days when we used to get drunk in Brighton.

- “Don't wanna talk about Brighton beach

Sitting on the beach when we got pissed

Had ten pints each

And now I know these days are over

But I'll remember the good times”

It's just a song on looking back at the good times.

FB(to Johnny): That's exactly what he was saying. You just repeated what he said!

J: Oh, alright! I thought you wanted me to explain our lyrics because you didn't understand what all that meant.

I was just saying that what always comes back in oi! songs is bands who sing about stuff they don't live but still sing about it. Like when you sing: “We all ran riot to the factory”

J: To run riot doesn't necessarily mean throwing bricks or petrol bombs. It's not an actual riot. To run riot means to go wild, to go mental like when you're pissed up or something like that. When you say “these kids are running riot”, it means they're running around, they're going crazy.

N: Back then, it really was like that, everyone was fighting all the time you know.

J: And there was the Poll Tax riot too but that's another story...

When you wrote these songs, was it about your life at the time?

J: Oh yeah totally but we wrote them when we were much younger. By the way, try to guess how old I am.

34 years old.

J: No, I'm older than that.

You're well preserved! It's like if you were kept in formol!

J: Well, to tell you the truth, I get this very expensive face cream whenever I come to Paris.

FB: And how old do you think I am?

45!!

FB: No! I'm 35 years old. By the way, today's Nipper's birthday. He's 27.

He's the child of the band.

FB: That's the reason we beat him!

N: And I beat the drums.

FB: Anyway, I saw lots of the original skinhead bands like Blitz, The Partisans, The Business very early on in the 80s...I didn't see the 4 Skins though...And my point it...absolutely nothing.

And between the 80s and Hard Skin, you stayed in the pub then?

FB: That's it, we stayed in the pub for 15 years and played darts. That was a big pint!

(To the other members of the band) : he's getting fucking cheeky, isn't he?

Like Hard Skin, a lot of traditional oi! bands sing about „running and fighting on Saturday nights" but they talk about what happened at a certain moment whereas when you sing about that, it sounds like if fighting is something you're waiting for or that you enjoy...

N: To us, oi! is about having a say and having a laugh and that's what everybody did at the time. That was great!

OK but a lot of your songs are very cliche so can you tell me if we should take Hard Skin at face value or not?

J: Our songs might be full of cliches but we've no pretentions of doing anything new. It's not like if we were the first band to play that kind of music. You're bound to have heard it before.

Hard Skin might be different because you're older than most bands that sang that kind of stuff when they were 18 years old.

J: Yeah but you know these songs are very old. The album came out out in 1996 and we'd written the songs a long time before the recording of the album anyway.

So what would you be singing about now?

J: Going to the pub and playing darts. That's what we still do. Actually we eat more than we used to but that's the only difference. Our lyrics are not really serious but do you know any oi! bands that have serious lyrics? Do you think the Cockney Rejects are serious?

Not the Rejects but the Business have some serious lyrics.

J: Do you really think they mean it when they sing “Drinking and Driving”? Anyway, you were talking about us being a caricature...Oi! has always been like that. Everyone that got into it started copying the bands they were into. It's the same with Hard Skin- we're a tribute to oi! music. And it's the music I've always listened to...

Well, if you've always been into oi!, why didn't you from a band when you were younger?

J: When I was younger, I didn't have any money. I had to sell fruit and vegetables for 5 years before being able to afford a guitar. Being in a band is expensive. Recording the album was also expensive. We had to record it in different bits. It was all done in the same recording studio but it was done over a long period of time. Can't you tell some songs sound different from other ones?

How long had you been playing together when you recorded the album?

J: 15 minutes! We rehearsed for 15 minutes before recording the first song. At the time, we had another drummer. The original drummer hung himself. We knew exactly what we wanted to do before recording the album. We had the general idea of what it was going to sound like so we never felt the need to rehearse.

...

J: It's true! I promise it's true! We just talked about the songs in the studio and recorded them directly.

But it's not possible! You must have played in bands together before!

FB: We know it's not possible. I am just very talented. I'm as talented as I am fat! To answer your question, no, we've never been in any bands before Hard Skin and we had never done any gigs either. Our first gig was for a wedding. The only reason we played that gig was because there was a stripper with enormous bazookas and she put cream on them and then put the cream on the groom's face! It was disgusting! We were really frightened but that was our first gig and we had one rehearsal before that gig. You don't believe anything we're saying but, believe me, we are telling the truth!

No I don't believe anything you're saying but I guess your music's only for English people and I'll never understand it...

FB: That's true because be honest and tell us what good bands have come from France?

Do you know Les Teckels? They're similar to Hard Skin. None of them are skinheads but they're like a tribute to oi!

FB: Yeah I know them. I've got their record and it's quite good. I've also seen the No-Talents...(he starts singing with a horrible French accent)..."Weee arrre ze No-Talents...Weee ave no talent..."

J: There was also this band called Niagara with an absolutely stunning girl in it. I didn't like the guy in the band very much because he was trying to be cool but he wasn't. What other French bands are there...PKRK, P38, Parabellum...What about Trust? Did you know Jimmy Pursey produced them?

FB: We also know Kochise from Dijon. They're fucking terrible! They're just a bunch of crusties who can't play! I'll tell you who I really like...Serge Birkin...No that's not it...Jane Gainsbourg!

N: “Joe Le Taxi” is agreat French song! Do you know, by any chance, if Vanessa Paradis is coming to the gig tonight?

Let's get back to Hard Skin. How long did it take to record this album without even rehearsing? And how many people did the back-up vocals?

FB: It took four days all in all but we went in the studio for one day at each time. We got absolutely pissed and then we got loads of friends to come in and get absolutely pissed with us. 7 or 8 of them did the back-up vocals.

Why did you form Hard Skin?

FB: The main reason we formed Hard Skin was for girls.

But you mustn't get many girls doing so few gigs?

FB: 3 gigs in 5 years is enough for my sexual appetite! By the way, did you know that Nipper met his girlfriend at one of our gigs? She's a German skinhead girl and they've got two babies- skin children- Wolfgang and Hektor. You will be able to see what she looks like because she's going to appear in Agatha's skinhead girls book. His girlfriend is the number 1 skinhead bird in London. There's others below her but she's at the top. She's very easy going, sexy and up for it.

Nipper, is your woman here tonight?

N: No, she's at home with the kids. I don't let her come out much because she's too hot and she might run off. And you never know what happens...Imagine if I meet another skinbird...I've got an open relationship but she's not allowed to.

Nipper, you're from Edinburgh right?

N: Now I live in South London but I'm originally from Dundee or Fundee as we like to call it because it's such a fun place. Apart from Oi Polloi, I also played in the Dundee oi! band On File. I know you don't believe me but it's true...I played with them a long time ago. They used to have a different singer at the time and before being On File, they were called the Dung Beatles. There you go, that's the proof I played with them and I know them.

What is an XR3?

N: An XR3 is a car we like to drive. It's a Ford Escort. That's it.

Are there any questions you would like me ask because I know you haven't done many interviews?

FB: Ask me if I'm successful with birds?

OK, are you successful with birds?

FAT BOB: I am. Believe me, I'd like to say I'm not but I am very successful with birds. Nipper's also good in bed. If you gave Nipper a mark he'd get 11 out of 10. He's the number one skinhead lover in London.

I've got a question for you Fat bob, do you usually wear Ben Sherman shirts? When I saw you in Belgium, your shirt was far too small for you and I was sure someone had leant it to you for you to say : “hey, I wear the same clothes as you in the audience!”.

FB: Yeah, a very small child gave it to me. It was Wolfgang's shirt- Nipper's son's. No I'm joking...I bought my shirts in 1982. Don't forget I'm a skinhead.

(After handing out badges especially made for French people on which were written “we eat snails”, we started talking about garlic bread, snails and muffs...)

FB: OK, Let's talk about football now...does anyone of you support Arsenal? One of you must support Arsenal since it's got half of the National French team in it. Do you know Patrick Viera? He's shit. Do you know Thierry Henry? He's fucking rubbish.

So who do you support? Chelsea? I saw you with a Chelsea shirt once.

N: Jesus Christ...What are you talking about...A Chelsea shirt...Are you mental?

FB: We all support Millwall!

That's why you were talking about Arsenal that way...You're just jealous because there are no Frenchmen in Millwall and they must be in the 3rd Division now...

N: Millwall are in the 1st Division! And anyway the game happens more on the terraces at Millwall.

One last question. Do you always want to remain some kind of legend? Do you want to keep Hard Skin more or less mysterious?

N: Well, we're not mysterious anymore because we're doing an interview for your fanzine.

FB: I hope you realize how lucky you are doing a Hard Skin interview for your fanzine.

I'd rather say you're the lucky ones since not many bands get interviewed in my fanzine! Why did you chose Paris for your last gig?

N: It's quite simple really. We were asked to do a gig in Paris and we said yes and we decided to knock the band on the head after that gig.

FB: It can't get any better than Paris anyway! And now we've done an interview for your fanzine so there's no point going on with the band. Anyway, this is our last gig and it's the first last gig we've ever done. It's great! We're not like Sham 69 who have done loads of last gigs. How many times did we see stuff like „Sham's last stand" or „Sham's last gig"...I'm going to get changed now but remember that when we wrote the songs, we meant it, we still mean it and we'll always mean it!

N: Thanks a lot! I hope you enjoyed the interview as much as I did! The final mark's 9 out of 10.